Episode Transcript
-- [00:00:01] Richard Miles: Inventivity, what does it mean? The state of being inventive, creating, or designing new things or thoughts. Hello, I'm Richard Miles. Welcome to the Inventivity Pod. Join us as we speak to inventors, entrepreneurs, and visionaries who are using Inventivity to change the world. They'll bring us alongside their journey as they share their personal stories from start to finish, including the triumphs, the failures, and everything in between.
[00:00:30] Richard Miles: Hi, I'm Richard Miles, and welcome to our Hope for the Future series, an innovative look at sustainability. For this limited series, we're able to talk to inventors who made it to the finals of the Cade Prize for Innovation, which since 2010, has been Florida's premier innovation prize. And this year, 2023, it's a national prize with an overall purse of $100,000. Today's guest, I'm pleased to welcome Rodrigo Griesi, the founder and CEO of NEPTUNYA Ocean Power and winner of the 2022 Cade Prize. Welcome, Rodrigo.
[00:01:02] Rodrigo Griesi: Thank you, Richard. Thank you for having me here.
[00:01:04] Richard Miles: So, listen, we've got a lot to talk about. You've got a very interesting story and a very interesting background. But I thought maybe so our listeners kind of know what your invention was and what the technology was. Let's dive into that a little bit. Talk about your prize winning entry from last year, Octopodz. And if I understand it correctly, and I'm going to allow you to correct me if I'm wrong here, what you essentially did was it's like a small ocean energy converter that converts not just wind, but also energy coming from the waves and the current. And the reason it was such a big deal, or I think why our judges were so impressed, is because it's quite different than the traditional ocean-based wind power, which is now so incredibly expensive, because you have to construct a very large windmills, essentially the same technology on land. You're now just trying to put it out at sea requires massive foundations, anchoring transmission cables, et cetera. And in fact, I was just reading an article yesterday in the paper in The Wall Street Journal that it said that the average cost to build an offshore wind farm and this is data from a company, I think, that is building them or, uh, was trying to build them off of Connecticut, Massachusetts, and so on, have shot up 36% since 2019. And then it's roughly, from the facts in the article, about three times as expensive to build an offshore wind farm as it is, uh, onshore. So, anyway, did I get it right? And then if so, tell me how Octopodz is, uh, developing over the last year.
[00:02:28] Rodrigo Griesi: Hey, Richard. I think it's a perfect pitch. I might even use it for some fundraising.
[00:02:33] Richard Miles: All right, great. Sign me up.
[00:02:34] Rodrigo Griesi: This is really good. And, ah, that's about it. We're developing, um, different approach for offshore wind, and it includes wave energy as well. So by that, we have what we call a higher capacity factor. That means how many hours in a day, you're producing electricity because you're not relying only on wind, but also waves. So you might have one or the other in different times. So this increases the production. And because the end of the day is the cost of the offshore power plant that you mentioned, but also on the other side is the production, the electricity production. So what we call the LCOE is the levelized cost of electricity is exactly that it's taking to a present value the entire funding or the capital expenditure, plus operation and maintenance for 30 years of an offshore wind farm divided by the amount of electricity generated in kilowatt hours. And then you have, uh, a unit cost. This is the main goal for our project. It's the main goal for every energy conversion that you find out there. And, uh, what we're trying to do is to reduce costs on one hand, because this is definitely needed for making offshore energy, any type of offshore energy, viable. But we're also looking into what's called floating platforms or floating wind that represents 80% of the power that you have out there in the ocean in terms of winds and other resources like waves, current. So this is something that there's no technology established yet. So, uh, as you mentioned, we just offshore land based wind turbines. They fit whenever the water depth is less than 60 meters. And there's a lot of places like that, uh, in the US. Of course, as well, with the continental shelf in the East Coast. But if you go to remote islands or even to California, the entire West Coast, Hawaii, and strategic islands for the US. Like Guam, or even territories like Puerto Rico and the entire Caribbean, Pacific, there's no place for that type of bolted to the ground offshore wind farms that exist today that the technology is established. And so it's a blank canvas for us . Inventors, creators, people that break things, uh, on the lab to figure out new ideas. And it's super exciting to have a blank canvas. It's really hard to find a blank canvas in the world right now, the solution for everything. So I kind of got in love with this, trying to develop. There's a few companies in the planet that trying to crack the code for floating wind, of course, but we're looking into one of the 10,000 options. It's an engineering problem, right? You have 10,000 options, and you don't have the resources to test the 10,000. So how do you make shortlist check? How do you pick? How do you make a shortlist? And especially, how do you use mathematical, um, numerical modeling and simulations, computer modeling, that this is, uh, the tool that we use a lot in our lab as well, to funnel that into some fewer solutions that you can really go and invest in prototyping testing out there in the ocean.
[00:05:42] Richard Miles: So, Rodrigo, I'm looking at a picture, actually, of your prototype right now that I pulled up. And I just want to, uh, kind of create a mental image for our listeners of sort of what this is and how it works. And it looks to be, if I had to describe it, I'm trying to guess exactly how tall these are. They don't look that big. Is this looked ten to 12ft tall, these buoys? Or are they bigger than that?
[00:06:03] Rodrigo Griesi: So it totally depends on the specific location. It could be configured to be 100 meters tall. It could be configured to be ten meter tall. So it's the power that it generates that will set the dimensions and the sizing of the turbine. And, uh, the biggest innovation you can call that, is that we're not using a regular propeller type windmill like you usually see. That's the standard, the established technology. Like I said, we're using a vertical axis wind turbine. So the turbine spins around itself on a vertical mode. This brings the center of gravity all down. So if you look at the image of an octopod, you see that the generator, that's where most of the mass is concentrated, is down at the water level. So it brings the center of gravity down. And when you do that, it decreases the amount of substructure or the platform to hold any structure that's floating in the ocean when you do that. So the mass going down, everything goes down. The whole supply chain cost, materials, production, manufacturing, transportation, installation, because the anchoring loads goes down. So this is one of the key areas that we're, uh, looking into reducing the total cost of those power plants is by one, of course, using vertical axis turbines. And this type of turbine has been studied by lots of government agency funded projects since the 60s, uh, for a land based turbine. It didn't become the mainstream or the technology that really fits for that, but we believe for floating turbines, this is a big opportunity for vertical turbines come back as winning design. And this is what we're simulating altogether with lots of other ideas and concepts that we're testing to reduce the cost all the time, or reduce the cost on one hand, or increase the production of electricity. So you mentioned as well that we're tapping into wind and wave energy with the same device. The idea there is to produce more kilowatt hours in the same period of time, and that by that, the unit cost of electricity tends to go down.
[00:08:14] Richard Miles: And so these would be deployed in arrays, right? So you're not just talking about a single turbine out there, you're talking about, what, dozens, or even more than that. So how many would you need to power, say, a small city of, say, 100,000 people?
[00:08:29] Rodrigo Griesi: So it's definitely a race. It's a wind farm. At the end of the day, it will be a wind farm, and it might be hundreds of them. But another advantage of using vertical wind turbines in this case is that the spacing between the turbines could be way less than the regular propeller type turbine because of the wake that's generated by the turbine. It's way less for a vertical. So you can have a denser area of turbine, so it reduces the footprint or the least area that you need out there in the ocean. And this is pretty important for, uh, navigation reasons, for fisheries, and for maintenance as well, for costs. And this is a great, uh, opportunity to have a denser site with less footprint in the ocean. And, uh, definitely with the race and the amount of power needed for a small community, it will definitely need to be sized by the average use of power that that community has. And we're looking into remote islands as our initial targets. And this is very interesting, because the average US Home uses more than three times the average amount of energy that on those islands we see. And the electricity consumption, it's related. It's directly related with, uh, human development index. So it's also interesting to see that we're going to have social impacts with that as well. Not only by bringing clean energy, but if we really can reduce the cost of that energy, we can have positive social benefits as well. And then the power plant needs to be sized to the demand, and it could be anything from megawatts to hundreds of megawatts power. It could be dialed in, into wherever it's needed.
[00:10:19] Richard Miles: Uh, Rodrigo, last year, when you applied and won, you'd already developed a prototype and you were testing it. How did that go, and what's the next step for Neptunya?
[00:10:29] Rodrigo Griesi: Yeah, it was great. Last year, we were in need of a support, and we ended up winning the Cade Prize. And it was really good. By the way, let me drink my glass of water. And it's a Cade Museum beaker that you guys.
[00:10:44] Richard Miles: Very good. Very much on brand.
[00:10:47] Rodrigo Griesi: Sorry I can't show on audio, but it's really cool.
[00:10:53] Richard Miles: A nice test tube style glass. It has Cade Museum on it.
[00:10:57] Rodrigo Griesi: Uh, it was really welcoming to see what you guys are doing for the innovation, ecosystem and infrastructure. And with the winning prize, we could test our prototype in the ocean. And that was one of the key milestones in our development, to really go out there in the ocean, because we've been in a lab developing lots of computer simulations, computer fluid dynamics analysis, structure analysis. And when you go out there in the ocean, then you really see that you're so small, you don't know anything about anything. Because right there, the number of variables is way bigger than anything you can simulate on a computer or on a workbench. And so, the learning experience of having that prototype ocean tested was really important, not only for ourselves to really understand what we need to accomplish and respect the ocean. Because I'm a sailor, I'm a kite surfer. I know that I feel the power and I know what is have a respect to the ocean. But a different thing is that is developing an engineering device that will live or needs to live for 20 or 30 years out there in the ocean. So the learnings were great and it was supported by winning the, uh, Cade Prize for one. And another important thing is that this allowed us to pursue the next steps that were fundraising for more experiments, more development. And with those data that came out from the ocean mission and the exposure that we got from winning the prize last year allowed us to reach our next goal that was being funded by an NSF SBIR grant the beginning of this year.
[00:12:42] Richard Miles: Rodrigo, this is not your first startup, right? I think you've had at least three before this starting, uh, in Brazil and then, uh, in Florida. Tell us a little bit about that journey. How did you decide, hey, I want to be an entrepreneur? Did somebody inspire you or how did you get involved in that?
[00:12:59] Rodrigo Griesi: That's correct. It's a long story, actually. Almost 20 projects. Three successful ones, actually.
[00:13:08] Richard Miles: Okay, so the successes go on the resume.
[00:13:12] Rodrigo Griesi: Exactly. So, 80% of failures. It's mostly failures, but I guess this is the way to crack any new invention or any code, you need to go through that. So you have to be emotionally ready for those failures. And this is something you learn by doing and suffering. And it's a mindset that I think it was in me since I got out of school. I wanted to test things out and create new solutions that some people value. Because the end of the day, this is the most important thing is if you're adding value to someone that really needs what you're building, this is where you go. It's not all the times, things you love that you want to do that you will succeed like that. It's figuring out something that you love or you can love and someone else really needs it. So when you find this intersection, I think you're going in, in the right direction. We can love a lot of things right? We don't need to go just in our hobby and try to make it happen. It's that flexibility that's the important thing in the mind of an entrepreneur, in my opinion, is figuring that out and finding something that you can love and you can be passionate about and it can change. And you change your personality change, everything changes. So being ready for that and when I started in the 2000s, we didn't used to call startups, uh, I was in Brazil, of course, not the same word, but even in the US, it's not the ecosystem that we see now for startups. Lots of methods, books and lots, uh, of, uh, ways to do it, techniques. And, uh, it was not like that. It was just, we're opening a company and let's go after customers. Clients. That was it. And uh, trying to figure out solutions for clients was something that really inspired me to move forward. It's not uh, an easy job because it's completely not stable. Uh, a lot of times, even the companies that I had success with, I had some days that I almost closed down the project because we were not believing more in the project or our bank accounts were exhausted. Things like that happen. It takes a big emotional toll on who's running the company and usually uh, your personal life with it because the people you love will be involved in it. You're going to be thinking about it 24/7, you're going to be dreaming about it. I dream a lot and in the middle of the night I just wake up and jot down some ideas. So it's a life I love and I've been doing it for a long time already. I'm an industrial engineer, specializing mechanics. But I started working with software because at the early nineties and uh, the end of 90s, it was a big new thing. It was software solutions. And I was also a consultant and I knew a lot of problems companies had. And that was I think, one of the best things. Because as a consultant, you are there learning and talking to people and you know the problem they have and you know the value that they put on those problems. And as a consultant, you're there to create solutions and why not automate that through software? And uh, as an engineer with this background, I was able to set up teams and build solutions for that. So two thirds of my career was related to software. This is where the money was at that time. Software for business, not applications, uh, for consumer. All of my career I succeeded on business to business initiatives. Solutions that I could get closer to a client and experiment at. In a business scenario. This is what I know how to do. I tried some B2C consumer type of solutions. It never went well. Lots of great experiences though and uh, there are people that are good doing that. So I learned that pretty soon that my focus should be business to business. And then a couple of projects later, one of the solutions we created was involving CGI computer graphic images and to sell images for e commerce, especially home goods e commerce. And it was something that we built in Brazil in a small island in the south of Brazil that's called the nickname is Floripa. It's almost Florida. It's Floripa. It's a really nice place for entrepreneurs, great, uh, universities, nice place to live, great cost of living. It's a perfect place for incubating startups and technology. And we built over there. At one point at a time, we said, why not bring this solution to the US. Where e commerce market is ten times larger than Brazil. So it was no brainer to come to the US. Bringing that solution. And it took a while for us to get the networking that we needed to sell to those companies. But we ended up, uh, hitting Home Depot Lowe's Wayfair, uh, and that type of clients were using our solutions. And after a few years, another company got interested in our solution and it ended up being acquired. And in my stories of startup, I never started a company thinking about selling it. I don't think it works. If you do it like that. Like, uh, I said before, the main thing is create something that someone else puts a big value on it. So solving a big pain and with something that you can love doing it, you can develop that love or you love already. So finding that and working on that for a few years, long hours and long years, is the route for that type of success. In terms of financial success, this is one side of the coin, and the other one for me, is learning and growing. This is one of the biggest part of success for me. And the failures contributed a lot to that. I remember great times on the projects that failed. So this is a good thing that I have great memories and great friends as well.
[00:19:22] Richard Miles: Rodrigo, I'm thinking this is an interesting twist. Usually, the knock or the joke about, uh, business consultants is it's really easy for consultants to come in and tell you what to do because they don't actually have to do it. But you're one of the rare breeds. No, I'm going to try to do, uh, know. So you sort of learned, I guess, from the companies that you saw making mistakes. Not enough to completely avoid some of those failures that you talk about, but nevertheless, you learned from them and that's the important thing, right? Um, it's not so much the failure, it's what do you take away from the failure so that next time you do it or something similar, hopefully you've at least voided that failure. Maybe you commit another one.
[00:19:57] Rodrigo Griesi: Exactly. Yes, the failures. I like to study my failures a lot. So I really have to learn something. It's not something, oh, we fail, we lost time, we lost effort and whining about it, no, let's see what we did wrong, what we can change, what we can learn. And this is exciting for me as well. So I don't care too much about those failures and 10,000 failures that you have to go through. And, uh, this is something that really helps me. I'm starting again because, uh, you also asked me how did I land finto offshore energy is. Because after working with software a long time, I wanted to go back to my origin. So my OG is mechanical engineer, industrial engineer. So I want to go back to building hardware. And I think now is time for that because there's so many tools that help you out now, like 3D printing and simulations on a computer AI for generating structures. This is amazing. None of our ancestors, the big minds that really drove technology for the last 200 years, they had that in front of them. We have now that this is great tools for, uh, a big explosion in innovation in terms of infrastructure and hardware involved in it, and even quantum mechanics. We're just touching and scratching the outer layer of what this holds for us in terms of new discovery. So I am really excited with the future and, uh, with the tools that we have and the knowledge that we still have to unlock that. For me, knowledge is something that is infinite, and that's the beauty of life in that perspective. For me, I don't think we're never going to learn everything about everything. If I would design a species, I would do like that. So we are going to have always that hunger to learn and to discover, because this is beautiful. Discovering new ideas, new concepts, and how the universe works is really awesome. And so I think we're, uh, on the beginning of new technologies possible by all those tools. But we need to shift our mindset for that. And that's great when new generations come, because when, uh, a teenager that's really brilliant could crack some codes that other people that have experience don't. It's because of the way he's looking at it. And he's not tied to any concept. He doesn't have the fear to lose his knowledge because he doesn't have a knowledge yet. So it's that mindset we need to have forever. Not only women, teenagers.
[00:22:40] Richard Miles: Let's talk about mindsets for just a second. Um, you were born and raised in Brazil. You graduated, and then you started your first business, or got your first business experience here. And then you, uh, moved to Florida, and then eventually became a US. Citizen on the same day you won the Cade Prize, which I still love that story. Um, Rodrigo, tell us what are the differences? What are the main differences, I guess, between business culture in Brazil and business culture in the United States? What did you notice right away? Like, this is easier, or this is a lot harder to do in the United States?
[00:23:11] Rodrigo Griesi: Good question. Huge differences on every perspective. Not good or bad, but very big difference. But just, uh, about that story of the citizenship. It was really exciting to win the Cade Prize in the same week that I was winning my citizenship, that I battled for maybe eight years. It's a long journey for people like me that are expats or immigrants or aliens, because the technical name for aliens, it's really interesting. But it was at the same week. My family, um, we're in four, my wife and kids, we were having the interviews separately. The Oath ceremony was separated, so it was an entire week of interviews and super excited at the same time nervous because all the family was there. And then we had the Cade winning prize on one week, and then Hurricane Ian came.
[00:24:08] Richard Miles: That's right, exactly.
[00:24:09] Rodrigo Griesi: Pushed our time. Very week right there in the so and even our podcast was changed because of a hurricane threat. Right. So it was exciting week for me. Uh, I'm sorry I was not there in person, but my, uh, heart was all with you guys. All right, so going back to your question. The difference is, first of all, everybody wants to sell something to the US. Market. It's one of the most demanding markets in the world. And so the entire planet is trying to sell some solutions. So competition in the US. Is way bigger than in Brazil. So you have to be way more prepared in, uh, every aspect in terms of how your solution is developed, how you're taking care of all the aspects, all the impacts of your solution on everybody that's involved into the building and delivering and servicing. So this is a great learning experience, uh, changing that environment. On another level, uh, in Brazil, the tolerance for risk is higher. So I guess business take more risks than in the US. So you can experiment more. And for inventors, innovators, uh, for breaking and creating new stuff, this is a good market as well, because you can test things out. People are more, uh, willing to test. I think in the US. Everything is more tied down and the liability, uh, issues and, uh, insurance, and, uh, so I think there's less, ah, room for breaking things, if you understand me. Not breaking things, like damaging too much, but you have to have some failures in a lab, sometimes things explode, and, uh, you have to go through that route. Of course, calculated risks, uh, it's the measurement here. We don't want to explode every day, but you have to accept a little bit of a risk to really innovate. So Brazil, I think, is a great sandbox, if you will, to test ideas out before coming to the US. This is what happened with our solution. The solution before the, uh, octopodz, we tested in Brazil with companies that were willing to try. And I think this is great in Brazil as well. Another very, very important difference is, of course, the economy and the demand of products and services in the US. You can't compare. This last startup. When we started selling to the US. It took a long time because of the competition, but when we had our first clients, like Home Depot, for example, one order of Home Depot was larger than the entire annual demand that we had in Brazil. Just to put it in perspective, the difference, uh, so this is also important. You need to have revenue, customers, and you need a distributed product. So this is also really good in the US. And one third thing that I wanted, uh, to mention, and now this is for my current startup because I'm working on something completely different that I worked before. It's more tied to my original passion that is developing hardware solutions with the ocean, and that's ocean energy. This is something that takes five to ten years to revenue. I never worked on a project like that. So I am learning a lot on how to hold your horses. You're not going to have revenue for that long. And usually ocean energy projects, they take 10, 15 years and nothing survives for that long. Imagine yourself investing in a company that's failing for 15 years. Uh, even if it's your company, you can't hold it for that long. That's why most of the ocean energy projects fail, because it is a long haul and nobody survives. No investors, no family, uh, and friends. You start having problems with your relationships. So it is really a hard, uh, thing to do. But in the US. And right now, 2023, where human consciousness is different, there is more people supporting clean energy initiatives, uh, increased resilience, because we're seeing the results of damaging natural processes already through storms. We mentioned two storms in our conversation that changed a little bit. Imagine remote islands that really survive, uh, on that. So in the US. You have more support, especially for research and development. I think this country made a really goo d job on setting a system that supports innovation. From basic research, from fundamental research, and to research, uh, and development, testing those phases that nobody makes money out of it because you have to test a lot of things. And, uh, we were just finishing one of the tests we need to do for our prototype. It's just one simple test. It's about the water break. How we can use water to break our turbines on severe weather. This is one feature. It's taking more than a month of three, almost four people, lots of materials, just to make one task. Imagine the whole thing. So it takes a long time, and this country is set up to support that. And this is the important fuel for innovation, is a community as a whole that supports that. And the government needs to reflect the community mindset. And this happens in the US. I think maybe is why it was set up as a startup, like you guys mentioned all the time, that was created as a startup model, different than the older models that have that in the DNA that support that. And the entire planet gets to be users of that as well. Those technologies go all around to make our lives better in other countries. So I think this is one big difference. What I love to be here and, uh, as a person that works with technology, I always in my entire life, I was willing to work in the US on cutting edge technology, uh, solutions like we're doing right now. So it's a blessing for me. And I love being Brazilian. Because I also bring a different perspective of everything. Because it's a different culture. Not because it's different species, but it's a different culture. And the culture creates your mindset. And being able to navigate between those two cultures, I think give us a better understanding of what will be the truth, because nobody really is going to understand. And you get more humble because of that, because you see that you really don't know. And you have to learn a lot of new stuff. And this fuells me as well. So I like what happened with this transition.
[00:31:16] Richard Miles: You said you could have me pitch your product. Well, I think we can have you pitch our product, the Cade Museum, um, just talking about invention and creativity and the importance of that. One final question. You mentioned earlier that the Cade Prize had really helped. Give us a few details. I mean, what happened after you won the prize? Did you find yourself getting calls from people curious in investing or media wanted to tell your story? What was that like?
[00:31:40] Rodrigo Griesi: Yeah, we got a little bit of media exposure. In our case, since we are still on research and development. I really don't like to claim anything before we have clear evidence that our product is going in the right direction. So that for me, was not the biggest value, because we're not monetizing that exposure yet, because it's the opposite. We have to really go slowly. But, um, on the other hand, we need funds, we need fundraising. And, uh, this really improves our reputation a lot. And you asked me as well, uh, before about how did we learn about the Cade prize? And I'm a former FAU tech runway, Incubated Company, and they referred me to you as one of the most hard judging competition that you can go. So if you go to the finalists on the Cade Prize, there's something behind your project that people need to look at. And this is how they pitch me the Cade, as something that's really well done. The evaluation of projects is really well done, and all the aspects that needs to be around that judgment and evaluation. So when I submitted my application, I was with that mindset, oh, this is a big deal, and let's focus. Let's get this really well done. Let's pay the attention that needs to be paid for this project. So it was really exciting only to be a finalist for me be there inside the Cade Museum right after the pandemic was starting to open doors, get to see people, have a booth and present. That was enough for me. You can't imagine the excitement by winning afterwards. But that was enough for me. And then it gave me I'm not going to say fuel anymore, because every time I say fuel, it's against my, um, new project. Right. Let's say more. It puts some wind on my sales.
[00:33:40] Richard Miles: There we go. Yeah, that's more on brand wind.
[00:33:42] Rodrigo Griesi: More on brand. So it put wind on my sales a lot, because as an entrepreneur, you go to peaks and valleys all the time. And that time I was in a valley. I was almost at the time of the sale, this is not going to work. A lot of bad thinking coming around me. And then, oh, it's too hard, it's going to be too long. I'm getting old now, I'm not in my 20s anymore. I can't put 20 hours a day at work.
[00:34:10] Richard Miles: It's interesting to hear you say that and sort of gratifying, because one of our early insights in starting the prize at the museum was we figured out that, ah, sometimes early inventors, they just need a little bit of encouragement. They just need someone patting them on the back, going, hey, this is good work you're doing, you're on the right track, keep going. And they just need a little bit of money. They're not at the stage yet where they're needing millions of dollars. They just need $10,000 or 20,000 just to get them to the next step. And then we realize that a prize like that, you could have an impact, uh, at a very early stage. Because sometimes inventors just need little recognition, a little inspiration, maybe a little bit of money to keep going.
[00:34:49] Rodrigo Griesi: Exactly. Sometimes you save the company from death just because of that. And, uh, I can say that was quite there because I was in a place, uh, and it happened with all of my startups, even the most successful one that I look at the past, I say, thank God I didn't shut it down. Right. But afterwards it's easy, right when everything is done. But at that time, I was really in need. So I appreciate the support you guys gave. And it changed my mindset. I said, oh, this is something that's more than me. It's something that I need to do because it's in front of me, it's happening. And things start happening around you when you put your mindset on that. And then with the funding, like I said, uh, it helped us to take the prototype out there in the ocean and learn a lot and get more data and unlock the next stage. That was get a, uh, research and development funding from the NSF. This is what I'm working right now. I'm working on a second version prototype that has more improvements, more features, advanced technology that we're developing to take it to the next level that is not yet a product. So we're not going to have customers too soon. We, uh, need to survive a few years with those fundings, but we need to have an ecosystem that supports every step of the way, because we're not going to have revenues or profit soon enough for investors to come in. So you also asked about investors. We're not in a time for investors, private investors, to come in because it's too risky. So where do you go? It's a lot of money because it's hardware. It's not something that you can do yourself on the computers. Uh, you need material. You need to invest. Even ocean testing. We did a simple ocean testing in the past. The next ocean testing, we need research vessels. We need a safety crew. We need permits for overnight.
[00:36:46] Richard Miles: Ah, none of that is cheap.
[00:36:48] Rodrigo Griesi: That's another level. Um, so how do you go through that with being a startup? You have to rely on the ecosystem, and you guys make this ecosystem exist. So I'm really grateful.
[00:36:59] Richard Miles: That's a great note on which to sort of wrap up the podcast. Just listen to your story again, and I already know your story. I'm still inspired. Continue to be inspired. I'm really happy for you and your team. We wish you the best. And, um, here's the deal. Once you guys are at Wall Street ringing the bell after your IPO, we'll have you back on the show, and you'll tell us the story of how you took this company public.
[00:37:23] Rodrigo Griesi: All right? Talk to you in 20 years, right?
[00:37:25] Richard Miles: Yeah, exactly. No, but I think you're an inspiration to a lot of people, Rodrigo. The work that you've put into this, and again, such an example of what a good idea can do and the impact that it can have. So wish you the best of luck. Rodrigo thank you again very much for being on the show, and we look forward to having you back at some point.
[00:37:42] James Di Virgilio: The Inventivity Pod is produced by the Cade Museum for Creativity and Invention located in Gainesville, Florida. Richard Miles and me, James Di Virgilio are your podcast hosts. Podcasts are recorded at the Heartwood Sound stage in Gainesville and edited and mixed by Rob Rothschild. Be sure to subscribe to the Inventivity Pod wherever you get your podcast, and leave a comment or review to let us know how we're doing. Until next time, be inventive.
